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Limited Atonement: Convince me, please!

 

Limited Atonement: Convince me, please!

 

“For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.”

2 Cor. 5:14-15

 

     Today in my personal Bible reading, I spent some time in 2 Cor. 5-6.  Coming across the above verse got me thinking about the doctrine of “Limited Atonement.”  This passage definitely has something to say about the debate between limited and unlimited atonement – I’m just not sure what.  I’ll say this for myself.  I’m riding the fence right now on the issue.  There aren’t a lot of well-known theological debates that I’m undecided on, but this is certainly one of them.

     Really, I’ve always been an unlimited atonement guy.  Without much reflection to be sure, but still.  I could see where limited atonement was a good logical conclusion for a Calvinist to draw, but I wasn’t convinced from Scripture that it was true.  You know what I mean? So, even though I’d come to accept 4 out of 5 points of Calvinism as Biblical, Limited atonement was just not compelling to me.  But again, I hadn’t spent much time on it.

     Lately though, it has come up a bit.  Especially influential was hearing John Piper’s description of limited atonement.  He said that “Christ’s death was sufficient for all, but effectual only for the elect.”  Well, this moved me squarely into the undecided realm because it seems like a pretty hard statement to argue with Scripturally.   Who’s going to argue that Christ’s death wasn’t sufficient for all?  Or that it was ineffectual for the elect?  No, the point of contention would be with the idea that His death was effectual only for the elect.  I suppose that one would have to demonstrate from Scripture that Christ’s death is effectual for those who ultimately perish in hell.  That just seems like a tough case to make.  At least as tough a case as the Calvinist side of that coin.  Anyway, this passage says something to the debate because it says that Christ died “for all” but it also says He died for the sake of those who live – possibly even those who live for him. 

     So, here’s the deal.  I’m on the fence and many of you are not.  You’ve settled on this one way or another.  Where are you on this issue?  I’d love to be persuaded.  State your case right here in response to this blog.

 

Have fun and blessings to you!

 

Cody

 

5 comments (Add your own)

1. Cody again wrote:
Today I listened to John Piper speak about Limited Atonement and, I must say, pretty compelling stuff. Here's a link to a video of his presentation. Enjoy!

I would REALLY LOVE to here rebuttals.

October 2, 2008 @ 6:37 PM

2. Cody again wrote:
I would REALLY LOVE to HEAR rebuttals.

Crud. I hate typos. To get to the video, click my name "Cody again".

October 2, 2008 @ 6:51 PM

3. glenn loewen wrote:
I've fought with this one as well....
It seems to me Scripture is crystal clear on atonement. No man can read thru the Bible including the following passages (John 3:16,Heb 2:9, Col 1:20, 2 Cor 5:14-19, 1 John 2:2, Isaiah 53:6...etc)and say, "Hey Jesus Christ did not die for me. In fact; Scripture intimates that he died even for those who are perishing...(2 Peter 2:1-2) Finney stated years ago, if Jesus Christ didn't die for everyone, than the people in hell will be able to say, "God's offer for salvation to me was never genuine"......
Can you imagine a tribal person walking up to the apostle Paul and asking him; "You mean Jesus died for me?"....and Paul saying, "Well that depends on whether you accept His offer or not....then we'll know if you were one of those Jesus died for".....Paul boldly walked into these areas and preached the atonement of Jesus Christ and pleaded for all to come....He said, "I make it my ambition to present every man complete in Christ" Col 1:28.
Either we accept Christs atonement for our sins, or we make God out to be a liar...1 John 5:10. How could anyone be guilty of making God a liar if HE indeed didn't die for them? Would it not then actually be the truth....That they are in hell and that Jesus in deed didn't die for them?
There are other thots; but let that suffice....
blessings on you
glenn

January 27, 2009 @ 4:52 PM

4. Cody wrote:
Hey Glenn, thanks for your comments. You've given me some good food for thought. I think you represent the "unlimited" atonement side well. I want to take some time to reflect on what you have said and then respond. I've been going back and forth on this one for a little while now. So, I suppose there is not hurry.

Blessings!

January 27, 2009 @ 5:01 PM

5. glenn loewen wrote:
Yes, I do represent that side....
My theology has come out of a great deal of anguish and passion (not brilliance!)...I'm not sure God has really called me to enter into this kind of dialogue; but in spending a little time on the subject, yesterday....I "happened" upon your site...
There is a lot more that could be said....let me just get a few more thots off my chest in regards to the subject....no need to rush a response...But I have thot long and hard on the subject....let me just offer some more thots...(14 of them)
1. There are two other references where Paul talks about the "perishing" people for whom Jesus died...
(Rom 14:15 and 1 Cor 8:11) The word in both contexts indicates eternal destruction for those for whom Jesus died.
2. Then one needs to consider passages that are totally irrevelant if "limited atonement" is biblical. For example Hebrews 10:26-29. Scripture talks about severe judgemment reserved for those who trample on the Son of God and profane His blood. If Jesus Christ didn't die for these people they could never be guilty of trampling on him and profaning His blood.
3. Jesus says, "Broad is the road to destruction....
Narrow is the road to eternal life; few there be that find it." Scripture NEVER talks about Jesus shedding His blood for "few" or "the few"; but rather for "all"..."the many"....or "many"
4. If limited atonement is biblical; then there will be no Jew in hell including any and all the Jewish leaders that reviled Jesus. Isaiah, in speaking to us all; and especially the Hebrew race says in Isaiah 53:6, "The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us ALL".
5. If limited atonement is biblical, then the people for whom Jesus Christ did NOT die are NOT ungodly; since Romans 5:6 says, "For while we were still helpless, Christ died for the ungodly"
6. Try to really read John 3:16-17 with the limited atonement view in mind....(keeping in mind "world" is Kosmos in the greek)....the passage renders a different meaning and becomes awkward. The word "Kosmos" is the same word that Satan used when he took Jesus to the top of the temple and offered HIM the kingdoms of the world (Kosmos).
7. If limited atonement is true, then you or I are no longer able to freely or honestly walk up to a fearing person and confidently say, "Listen friend, Jesus Christ, died for you....turn to Him"...
8. If limited atonement is biblical; people cannot be judged by God for unbelief or for rejecting the "once and for all" sacrifice"...since it never applied to them.
9. 1 Tim 4:10 says, "He is the Savior of All Men, especially those who believe". If Jesus only died for believers or those going to Heaven, He could NOT be called the "Savior of ALL men". (also check out 2 Tim 2:6)
10. 5 point Calvinism is certainly logical; and the "limited atonement" point clearly fits into that logic; but it violates Scripture.
11. If limited atonement is true, Preachers through-out the ages are guilty of lying by declaring to the masses of people...."Dear people, Jesus Christ payed the price for your sins....please done reject that awesome gift!" And yet this is exactly what the apostles would have preached...
12. If limited atonement is true, one could never again use scripture to honestly try to "prove" to a person that he or she too were included in Christ's death. And yet that's precisely what Scripture again and again encourages us to do.
13. Also, if you ever come across someone who has been converted by reading the scriptures and suddenly been enlightened that He/She was included in Christ's death based on the Bible using "He died for "ALL" or for "The World"...You need to politely tell him/her that they were actually converted by a false understanding of "All" and "The World"....and so indirectly it almost implies that the Holy Spirit saved someone by using a "false means" or false understanding.
14. Brother, praise God that He has not only given us the liberty, but commanded to go and preach the gospel to every creature...everyone....why? Because it applies to all....and people will be judged for rejecting this powerfully precious gift!
His weak and trembling servant,
glenn loewen

January 28, 2009 @ 2:21 PM

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